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 Mark Guillermo's Crazy Yoyo design 
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Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:11 pm
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Location: Riverside, California
First off, I don't have much knowledge nor experience in machining or designing yoyos except for what I've researched in forums and company websites, so I apologize if any part of my design doesn't make sense or is just plain impossible. Also, I'm sorry I can't offer you a rendered CAD design, I tried learning how to use one and failed miserably. That's why I drew my design instead.

Goal: To design a pocket sized yoyo that utilizes the Side Effects in a very unique way.

Design Concept: Imagine a Dingo with a sharper and bigger catch zone but with Side effects, that' generally what my design is. But, it's not that simple. It has a "variable rim system" that makes use of the side effect. Thus, my design has three parts: the core (main yoyo), the Side effects and the variable rims.

Core: The core is the SE enabled "Dingo" with a bigger catch zone that I designed to be organic/butterfly shaped that changes to a concave shape halfway through for comfort and ease of landing tricks despite the narrow width. The response system is silicone/flow groove.

Side Effect: OneDrop is genius for creating the Side Effects. I wanted to design something that uses Side effects because it allows customization of function, weight and look. And, for those who have most or all the Side effects, they would want more yoyos that utilizes it. For my design, the side effect is basically a "fastener" for the variable rims and when it's not being used to hold the variable rims, it can serve to add center weight and therefore stability. I made the head hexagonal to pay tribute to the project and so the rims don't slip during play. Also, the threaded hole in the side effect where the axle goes in is longer so that the gap of the yoyo can be reduced to half the width of a normal bearing (2.5 mm) so a half width bearing can be used to make the yoyo responsive.

Variable rims: I love pocket yoyos, but using it for competition is not ideal because it's harder to land tricks. By having rims that could be attached whenever you want, you get two yoyos in one. You get a pocket yoyo and a competition yoyo. The variable rims would add weight, width and diameter to turn the core yoyo into a full sized competition yoyo. That's not all though. It's variable because you can have a different rim, made of delrin or plastic that has more width and diameter, that can be attached for offstring play when coupled with the half width bearing.

Cons:
1. "Mark you are freaking crazy!" Yes, this thing would be so hard to make that I don't even know how Shawn and David can produce them. They'd need a bunch of gnomes to help them. Also, I don't know if some of the design aspects could be machined.
2. Price is gonna go up up up! If it's hard to make, it's gonna be expensive.
3. When using the variable rims, you can't use other Side effects.
4. The complex system might introduce vibe especially if annodization is not taken into account.
5. It's gonna be heavy. I'm guessing in the 70g range at the least.
6.. Who's gonna make the delrin rims? Where are they gonna get half width bearings?

Pros:
1. "Mark this is freaking crazy!" ...in a good way? This will be one of the most unique, if not the most unique yoyo in your collection.
2. You get three yoyos in one: an SE enable pocket yoyo, a full sized competition yoyo and an offstring yoyo.
3. The rims will add rim weight, width, diameter and center weight for longer spin time, more stability and it's gonna be easier to land tricks.
4. The rims and Side effects will be additional canvas for artists, modders and annodizers.
5. With a half width bearing, you can either have a responsive yoyo or an offstring yoyo(w/ delrin rims)

This is my ideal design. But I have a more realistic design in case Shawn and David tell me to tone this down.

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Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:00 pm
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I didn't understand it at first, but this is actually a pretty great design concept. My main concern would be weight, as well as the feasibility of production.


Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:17 pm
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Vendetta wrote:
I didn't understand it at first, but this is actually a pretty great design concept. My main concern would be weight, as well as the feasibility of production.


Much agreed.

I really love the whole concept, but it would be a big challenge to find a reasonable method for fastening all the pieces together while keeping vibe and stability (let alone structural integrity issues) to a minimum.

If you (Mark) can pose a good solution to those problems I'm totally going to get behind you on this one. I really, really love the idea.

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Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:24 pm
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nkessler wrote:
Vendetta wrote:
I didn't understand it at first, but this is actually a pretty great design concept. My main concern would be weight, as well as the feasibility of production.


Much agreed.

I really love the whole concept, but it would be a big challenge to find a reasonable method for fastening all the pieces together while keeping vibe and stability (let alone structural integrity issues) to a minimum.

If you (Mark) can pose a good solution to those problems I'm totally going to get behind you on this one. I really, really love the idea.


I actually think it would play quite stable, and wouldn't be too worried about vibe etc. The issue I foresee is the machining of the rims (delrin or aluminum). Shawn would have to comment on the feasibility of this. Maybe it could be done on the mill.


Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:30 pm
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nkessler wrote:
Vendetta wrote:
I didn't understand it at first, but this is actually a pretty great design concept. My main concern would be weight, as well as the feasibility of production.


Much agreed.

I really love the whole concept, but it would be a big challenge to find a reasonable method for fastening all the pieces together while keeping vibe and stability (let alone structural integrity issues) to a minimum.

If you (Mark) can pose a good solution to those problems I'm totally going to get behind you on this one. I really, really love the idea.


He has proposed a very clever fastening method. Study his proposal again and you'll see.


Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:41 pm
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I basically took the concept behind the side effects itself which is taper friction. But I was worried that the variable rims would slip if the hole in the middle was kept circular so I made the head of the side effects hexagonal.

As for the weight, this is my biggest problem of all including the difficulty of machining. I originally wanted holes (think Adegle RhongTo) around the main central hole on the variable rims to reduce weight and to push the weight more to the rims. But that would make machining the rims even harder!! If this ever got prototyped and ended up being around 75g, I would still love to play with it. Because right now I have two yoyos that weigh 80g that I use for 3a/5a.

Thanks for the comments guys! Much appreciated!

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Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:36 pm
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a great innovation for sure, just love it :)

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Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:12 am
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BABBYlonian wrote:
I basically took the concept behind the side effects itself which is taper friction. But I was worried that the variable rims would slip if the hole in the middle was kept circular so I made the head of the side effects hexagonal.

As for the weight, this is my biggest problem of all including the difficulty of machining. I originally wanted holes (think Adegle RhongTo) around the main central hole on the variable rims to reduce weight and to push the weight more to the rims. But that would make machining the rims even harder!! If this ever got prototyped and ended up being around 75g, I would still love to play with it. Because right now I have two yoyos that weigh 80g that I use for 3a/5a.

Thanks for the comments guys! Much appreciated!


I actually think machining holes would be a great idea. It wouldn't be as hard as you think.


Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:49 am
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I am really intrigued by this idea. Using the side effects as a fastener really strikes my interest. Looks, feel, shape, size are totally interchangeable. Now if they were machined from aluminium or even titanium...

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Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:03 am
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I Just looked over this design and I have to say it's absolutely brilliant! I had my own proposal for such a design, but looking at yours I have to admit that your idea is far superior.

However, I believe that it would be better if there are two contact tapers: One the side-effect, and between the outer rim and the inner core. This I hope will not only help maintain smoothness, but also lessen the possibility of the assembly from falling apart due to hits and dings.


Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:04 am
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victorkaxx wrote:
I Just looked over this design and I have to say it's absolutely brilliant! I had my own proposal for such a design, but looking at yours I have to admit that your idea is far superior.

However, I believe that it would be better if there are two contact tapers: One the side-effect, and between the outer rim and the inner core. This I hope will not only help maintain smoothness, but also lessen the possibility of the assembly from falling apart due to hits and dings.


Thanks!
Actually, if my definition of taper is correct (the gradual thinning towards one end), then my design has three contact tapers. One on the side effect, another one on the head of the side effect that is in contact with the center hole on the outer rim, and one on the inner edge of the outer rim that is in contact with the core. Perhaps I should make the taper on the inner edge of the outer rim a little longer. Originally I wanted that inner edge to have a rubber o-ring just like how a side effect has an o-ring so that the outer rim will be held in place during assembly, but that would make it harder for Shawn and David to construct the yoyo.

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Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:41 am
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This thing totally has my support so far. This idea is really quite fresh and interesting! Can't wait to see if it's really viable.

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Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:17 am
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First off, I just want to say this is a really cool idea Mark.. and your mechanism to keep the variable rims attached is quite ingenious. Nice design!

There are a couple of things I would like to mention. As awesome as your idea is, I have to admit that a pocket throw with the dimensions of 45 x 28 does not really sound too appealing to me.. of course, dimensions can often be deceiving, so maybe it could still play like a champ?

I do have one major concern with this overall design and that is weight management. As much as I would like to see a yo like this created, I'm worried it's play characteristics would suffer due to both overall weight and weight distribution. Hear me out...

It seems to me that the aluminum version of the variable rim would be decently heavy on it's own. This is purely a guess, but, it worries me that the minimum weight that rim would be machined to would probably still be like 15+grams (per rim). Assuming that I'm not really really far off on this estimation, I'm worried that this will throw off the weight of the 'core' in your design.

If the final goal is to have something that is under 75g, having 30 grams dedicated to the variable rims leaves a total of only 45g to be distributed over the body of the 'core'. I have definitely never played something that is 45mm x 28mm and 45 grams... It could just be me, but it seems like that probably wouldn't have the best play characteristics.

Honestly, I would love to play a yoyo like this and see how it feels. However, I'm worried that: a) I would never use it as a pocket throw and b) it seems like it might make my arms tired pretty quickly. Anyhow, that's just my 2 cents. Don't get me wrong, this is a fantastic idea! I'm just a little concerned about how the end product would play.

Also,
Vendetta wrote:
I actually think machining holes would be a great idea. It wouldn't be as hard as you think.


I agree with V, that is a good idea... I wonder how much the 'holy' rim would weigh?


Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:28 am
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I agree as well. The dimensions for this are not set in stone. I just put the design concept out there. And your estimations for weight are exactly my estimations( whoa! psychic? ). I just drew as nice as I can in a 1:1 scale on a graphing paper and measured it. Then I put my dingo on top of it. "Close enough, alright let's post it." I was thinking that if I could push the weight of the core to at least 55 and reduce the rim weight to at least 15 then it would be great! This is when I wish I knew how to use some CAD program.

I need your help guys! What is the minimum thickness for aluminum before it's structural integrity suffers? (for yoyos that is) I need to know how thin I could make the "holy" rims. From what I gathered around forums, some manufacturers/modders say that they can go down to 1.6mm. I was going with 2mm to be safe.

And David, would it be cheating if I asked someone else to do a CAD draft of my design? Like perhaps someone from the forum so it can really be "community" designed?

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Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:56 am
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BABBYlonian wrote:
I agree as well. The dimensions for this are not set in stone. I just put the design concept out there. And your estimations for weight are exactly my estimations( whoa! psychic? ). I just drew as nice as I can in a 1:1 scale on a graphing paper and measured it. Then I put my dingo on top of it. "Close enough, alright let's post it." I was thinking that if I could push the weight of the core to at least 55 and reduce the rim weight to at least 15 then it would be great! This is when I wish I knew how to use some CAD program.

I need your help guys! What is the minimum thickness for aluminum before it's structural integrity suffers? (for yoyos that is) I need to know how thin I could make the "holy" rims. From what I gathered around forums, some manufacturers/modders say that they can go down to 1.6mm. I was going with 2mm to be safe.

And David, would it be cheating if I asked someone else to do a CAD draft of my design? Like perhaps someone from the forum so it can really be "community" designed?


You can source as much as you like :)


Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:58 am
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VERY, VERY, VERY much in love with this concept! Hope so see something come of this somewhere down the line even if it doesn't make it to CODE2 status.


Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:56 pm
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elBueno wrote:
VERY, VERY, VERY much in love with this concept! Hope so see something come of this somewhere down the line even if it doesn't make it to CODE2 status.

Thanks! If it doesn't make it as CODE2, I'll still try to make it a reality. Hey, maybe I'll make my own little company? ....Probably not, I'm too busy.

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Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:18 pm
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I agree with the weight issue. Figure each rim is 15 grams. With 2 rims that adds 30 grams. With side effects axle and bearings too that ads say 5 grams depending on which ones you use. Also figure the weight of the pocket sized yoyo. It will be around 40 grams. This is a very light yoyo for use!

For a pocket sized yoyo at 40 grams, I believe play would be tricky yet possible.. Just something to think about.

If you played with the pocket sized yoyo, it would probably feel very light and possibly unstable depending on weight distribution.

Also this has been done by YoyoFactory with the pocket change and Offstring, the idea of removable rims at least. I am not comparing it to them, I am just saying it has been done.

I like the concept just the weight issue is something to think about. If you were to play it in its pocket sized form it may be unstable and it will feel very light which some users may not enjoy.

Great work!


Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:33 pm
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All the weight stuff can be adjusted. It's not a huge concern to get the exactly accurate here.


Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:34 pm
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Wow, what a use for SEs. I like it.

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